The Little Red Hen — A folktale retold in an Indian Picture Book
Karen Haydock’s ‘The Little Red Hen’ combines beautiful illustrations and simple text to satirize much that’s going wrong in our world.
When I first picked up this little book, it made me see the folktale that I’ve read in my childhood in a different light. And indeed, picture books can empower us to open our minds to things we ignore in our daily lives.
Karen Haydock talks about how one could be a more aware illustrator and the many layers of meaning a text or an illustration creates in the minds of its readers. ‘The Little Red hen’ is published in English and Hindi by Eklavya Publications.
Me — How did the idea for this book come to you?
Karen — A storybook of the Little Red Hen was one of the first books I learned to read and one of my favourites when I was 3–4 years old. Soon after I immigrated to India in 1985, I thought of illustrating a Hindi version of it.
I made a cartoon series (including my feeble attempt at writing in Hindi) that was published in the children’s science magazine, चकमक, published by Eklavya in Bhopal. Recently, my good friend Kanak Shashi, at Eklavya, suggested that we make it into a small book. She designed it and I redrew the illustrations.
Me — What made you base the Little Red Hen in the Indian context? I should say it makes a very powerful comment. Isn’t it actually an American folktale?
Karen — The Little Red Hen is a folk tale, which means that it gets passed along throughout the ages by ordinary people telling and retelling it, modifying it as they go. It is hard to say how or where a folk tale starts, and there is no individual author. In this case there are probably old versions throughout Europe and Asia — maybe Africa — who knows?
For a version to be read by children in India — mostly villages and small towns of Madhya Pradesh — I thought it would be more relevant to their own lives if the pictures showed some things that were more familiar to them.
Me — What are your thoughts on anthropomorphism in children’s literature in general — and in this fable in particular. Do non-human characters make conveying certain themes more effective in the storytelling?
Karen — Sometimes showing animals doing human things makes it obvious how ridiculous human actions are.
I guess some people interpret the story as being about laziness vs hard work, but I think it’s more about class conflict. I don’t think the moral is that you should do hard work and not be lazy. I think the red hen is doing too much hard work. She should also go swimming or just relax once in awhile, like the others do. What is important is that the story makes me ask why there should be poor people and rich people.
Me — What were your thoughts when making the illustrations?
Karen — The story is about the contradictions between the rich and the poor.
When I made the drawings I was remembering how I had seen rich people living, and the kinds of homes and work places they may have.
I depict what I see. In doing art, I ask questions about what I observe and I try to investigate these questions. For example, when I go to the field I see people cutting grain, and when I go to the town I see other people making profit off of their hard labour. So this is what I showed in the cover illustration. I had to look carefully and also try cutting grain myself in order to figure out how to show it. And I am also familiar with how it is to sit a certain way in a comfortable chair.
Me — It could very easily be grim, but it’s not — there is humour too perhaps.
Karen — Yes, there is sadness and despair as well as a kind of dismal humour in the contradictions between the rich and the poor. The rich may not be very purposely evil — they are also trapped in their social positions. So they sometimes appear pitiful and humorous as well as despicable. So if you draw them as they really look, maybe that is what they appear to be.
Me — Did the brown recycled paper inform your illustration style?
Karen — The brown paper and the small size was the idea of Kanak, who did the book design. After I gave the illustrations, it was a nice surprise for me.
Me — I really loved the bold lines and decorative elements of the illustrations. Do tell us more about how they were made.
Karen — The original illustrations that were published in Chakmak were drawn on paper with a technical drawing pen (Rotring). The original drawings had to be in black and white because Chakmak was mostly in black and white in those days. I used to do most artwork in India ink on white paper also because it was inexpensive and did not require a lot of studio space and supplies, in comparison to other media such as oil painting.
I decided to modify, redraw, and add to the original drawings in order to make a book.
After scanning the originals, I modified them on the computer with a wacom tablet and pen, using an electronic ‘pencil’ for black and white (no greyscale).
I wanted to write the text myself by hand using an old-fashioned calligraphy style, but since I am not very good at calligraphy, I cheated: I drew by hand (on the tablet) on a layer over the greyed-out typed words, so that it was easy to regulate the size and spacing.
Me — What is your preferred medium? Do tell us about your process of illustration.
Karen — I still prefer black and white, pen and ink, very often. I guess the computer tablet brings out changes in the pictures, compared to pen and ink. The biggest difference is that with pen and ink you cannot erase. I usually do not do preliminary sketches in pencil. So the paper illustrations are more spontaneous. Very often, I draw by looking at things as I am drawing them, although I do not usually try to make a picture that looks ‘accurate’. I use what I see, what I remember, and what I understand as inspiration.
Me — Fables like the little Red Hen are often moralistic. What are your thoughts on that? Does moralizing have a place in children’s literature?
I think even when people try to tell moralistic fables, if they are well told, they will tend to raise questions in the minds of the audience. The audience will not just believe whatever moral is explicitly stated. Many folk tales are moralistic, but in funny ways that do not sound like the tellers are trying to be too preachy. Or sometimes the tellers are so absurdly preachy that they become parodies of themselves.
The best stories, like the best art, help people to raise important questions rather than find ready-made answers.
Me — Speaking of art raising important questions, this illustration made by you that I saw on your website, really touched me and made me think. Please tell us about it.
Karen — I drew this picture after seeing people sleeping in the middle of the street in Delhi. They must have been working hard all day and did not have any other place where the ‘legitimate citizens’ would not complain and the police would not chase them away immediately. Maybe they were the people who were building or repairing the roads. So the roads were literally theirs. But what rights did the cars have to be there?
As far as I know, this picture does not appear in any publication — although it may have been, without my knowing it, since I state on my website that all of my work is under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License
Me — Do you think Children’s books reflect Politics? How does one not jeopardize the storytelling in an attempt to make a statement?
Karen — I don’t think it is possible to make any story that does not reflect politics, whether that is intentional or not. Our points of views are unavoidable. Things that may jeopardize the story are if the teller is patronising, racist, casteist, unfair, or very dishonest. So authors and illustrators should analyse their own work to find out its possible meanings. It helps to get feedback from children and others.
Me — You have been a prolific illustrator. What informs your choice of books?
Karen — I have not usually had much privilege in choosing which books to illustrate, and I have found it hard to say no. Like most people, I have found it difficult to get my own stories published. I prefer to illustrate text that is speaking out for oppressed people rather than the oppressors — because I think that is necessary.
Sometimes people object to my illustrations, and usually it is helpful to hear what they find objectionable. But sometimes I disagree.
Me — You mean, you disagree with the text you’ve been provided?
Karen — Yes, sometimes I have disagreements with the text I am given to illustrate, so I have to try to subvert the assignment. I wrote about this in an article in Economic and Political Weekly about illustrating social science textbooks (Stated and Unstated Aims of NCERT Social Science Textbooks, Economic and Political Weekly, Vol L, No 17, pp 109–119, 2015).
For example, there was a part of a textbook that was about how the values of wheat, flour, and biscuits are calculated. But I felt that the text was ignoring the most essential questions. So I made this cartoon to subvert the text.
However, the authors changed it to the one shown below.
Me — What are some things you have found out about what it is that people object to? Are there any valuable inputs you’ve found ?
Karen — Sometimes I just make silly (or serious) mistakes or unwanted distortions, and I make corrections when others point them out.
Sometimes people have complained that the people I draw look African, or have skin that looks too dark. That was interesting, and I tried to figure it out. I wanted to understand if I was being racist.
I think artists usually draw something of themselves when they draw a picture of someone else. But I do not look like what people think a person from Africa should look like. Maybe I had just not been looking very carefully at the people I was trying to draw.
So I tried to observe more closely. I even did some experiments to find out what colour skin children thought their own skin was. Even after comparing colour samples to actual skin, many children said that their skin was much lighter than what I thought it was. It could be that because of the prevalent racism, people want to be pictured with skin colour that is ‘fair and lovely’.
Or it may have been true (especially when I first came to India) that the people I drew looked somewhat ‘African’. However, there is a lot of variation between people in the numerous countries, cities, towns, villages, and communities of both Africa and South Asia, and there are similarities as well. I don’t think it is insulting to ‘look African’, though.
Another complaint is that the people I draw do not look happy enough. I never thought about that until they raised the question. It is true that when I draw some children doing a science experiment, they may not be smiling. But in my eyes, the people I draw usually do not seem too unhappy. I just draw them like I see them. They also probably seem to be more ‘beautiful’ in my eyes than in some viewers’ eyes.
Me — In your science illustrations, one often sees folk elements, decorative motifs which are refreshing. Personally, when I was in school — I disliked most of the textbook illustrations — they often seemed flat and unimaginative, but I suppose that could be because they are meant to be factual. What are your thoughts on that?
Karen — In illustrating textbooks, I sympathize with bored students being forced to stare for long hours at each page. I don’t mind making crowded pages that look a little like a hodgepodge (खिचडी). It would be nice if different students will find something strange or confusing to question and think about.
I would hope that a science textbook somehow encourages students to do their own science.
I do not think science is a list of facts or a body of knowledge. I think science is a process of doing. And questioning and observing are two basic aspects of doing science.
Maybe the illustrations help confuse students so they ask questions, discuss, and investigate.
We may think that some science illustrations need to be ‘factual’, but what is factual? For example, on the left is a diagram I submitted to illustrate the digestive system. It was changed to the one in the middle, presumably because the authors wanted to make it more factual. But if you look at what an actual human being looks like, you will find that each person is different, and the organs look more like what is seen on the right.
So, clearly, there is not one correct, factual picture of the human digestive system. Illustrations show particular aspects, make simplified representations (models), and show things that are actually moving 3-d processes in a fixed 2-d picture.
Sometimes people complain about the different styles I use, especially for textbook illustrations. On the left is a rejected illustration of someone eating that I made for a textbook. It was replaced by someone else’s illustration, shown on the right.
Maybe a more western style of drawing — and a more ‘advanced’ western style of eating with a spoon — was seen as being more desirable. Maybe my drawing seemed too ‘primitive’. Sometimes I purposely try to use styles that are inspired by the kinds of art I see around me — including art made by young children before they are ‘educated’. Or I just put the actual pictures made by children and others in the books I am designing.
This (above) is an example of a picture I made that was influenced by what is sometimes called a ‘Madhubani’ style. It is a header for the Bal Vaigyanik textbook chapter on शरीर के आंतरिक अंग (Internal organs of the body).
I was not exactly copying Madhubani pictures, but I was using some elements I had seen in paintings from Mithila. I am always a little worried about whether I could be accused of cultural appropriation.
But then, should I just use styles of my own culture? And what is my own culture? Actually I have always drawn the way I draw as a result of learning from whatever drawings and cultures I have seen and even from those that have come before them and influenced them. Since I have been living in various parts of India since 1985, the various kinds of art I have seen have influenced me.
Me — Has your experience in teaching led to new insights about illustrating books for children?
Karen — Yes, I have had experience teaching various subjects to very young children, teaching biology and philosophy to high school students, and teaching science education to PhD research scholars. I found the youngest students to be the most enthusiastic learners. They also required the most energy and effort from me. But at all levels I kept learning while teaching, and I kept finding that it is very hard for a teacher to understand what students are thinking and doing and learning. A teacher cannot just tell students information that students will imbibe. They do not imbibe. And why should they?
When people look at pictures and read books, they do not learn what the artist or author believes or tries to teach.
How they react depends on their past experience and point of view and a good teacher will try to learn from the students and understand their points of view, as well as teach them. It’s difficult. Good teaching/learning is hard work, and involves creativity by teachers and students. An artist is also a learner and a teacher. The artwork keeps evolving interdependently with the society and nature in which we live.
Me — Tell us about yourself. How did you journey into illustrating for children?
Karen — I had a lot of opportunities to explore because both of my parents were artists (although the visual art they made was never well known) — and scientists too, in a way (having high scientific tempers that sometimes flared up!).
So I always had paper and art supplies to fool around with, and I was encouraged to do whatever art I wanted to do. I kept studying and doing art even when I was studying science and doing a PhD in biophysics in USA.
I left USA partly because, seeing so many problems in the world, I wanted to find some work that would be useful to people. I got more interested in education, and I got some chances to illustrate books for children. I still consider myself to be both an artist and a scientist, though.
Me — What are the most satisfying books you’ve illustrated?
Karen — The ones I like best are the ones that I thought had the best text. For example, the little book of नागार्जुन, अकाल और उसके बाद. I like this also because I had long ago met Nagarjun, and heard him recite this poem, and I had told him that I would try to illustrate it.
I had a hard time illustrating it because I was not familiar with the context. I did not do it until after he had passed away. But I am glad that I finally did it.
Me — Tell us about books and illustrators you admire.
Karen — I am not as familiar with the newer books, but I can mention a few old ones. When I was a child growing up in New York City, and then in Santa Fe, we went to the local libraries, which were run by the government. Without any fees, we used to go and borrow a new pile of children’s books every few days. In addition to The Little Red Hen, I remember Harold and the Purple Crayon, Millions of Cats, The Little House, and Goodnight Moon.
And our mother would read us books such as The Wind in the Willows, Alice in Wonderland, Charlotte’s Web, and Tom Sawyer. The edition of the Little Red Hen did not have very interesting illustrations, but these others were illustrated by some of our favourites.
When my daughter was born, in Chandigarh in 1990, we again searched for children’s books, and found wonderful (and very inexpensive) Russian children’s books and books published by the Children’s Book Trust and the National Book Trust (जादूगर by विशाखा and stories by Premchand come to mind). Favourite foreign books include Tar Beach by Faith Ringgold, The Wizard of Oz, books written by poets such as e e cummings, and books illustrated and written by Maurice Sendak. And then there are all sorts of folk tales from all around the world.
See more of Karen Haydock’s work here . ‘The Little Red Hen’ is available here .
The idea behind this series of interviews is to give readers a glimpse into the world of children’s publishing and picture book illustration in India — what illustrators actually do and how they work their magic. Stay tuned!
Read the interviews with children’s book illustrators Ishita Biswas , Sunita , Deepa Balsavar, Bhargav Kulkarni, Ruchi Mhasane, Ashok Rajagopalan, Priya Sebastian
